Curse

Div · Aug 01, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

SoH hero+Triple Chop+Cyclone Axe+Whirlwind Attack = da best

Tenebrae · Aug 01, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Barrage is great because of splinter, and because ANet upped the mob sizes in later content. Only stupid people say it sucks, or the pseudo elite, or people who are too chicken to disagree with the pseudo-elite. Barrage recharges in 1 sec, but your bow won't fire faster than its refire rate, which is why flatbows are the best for Barrage.

BHA was used for PvP in the early days and people thought it was brilliant, but then they realised that really it sucks so bad it was funny.

Calling ppl names because its opinion doesnt look good dude , you should keep it to yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

SoH hero+Triple Chop+Cyclone Axe+Whirlwind Attack = da best

Erm, for a Ranger HM ?

Ugh · Aug 01, 2009, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiz12268

But when you look at the list of ranger elites they are pretty lacking in the damage causing areas.

Ranger skills are lacking in damn near every area you can think of. Traps are useless, Beast Mastery is only used for EoE and lols, and nature rituals are slow and 90% of 'em are terribly thought out. And there are crap skills like...

Practiced Stance, Punishing Shot, Equinox, Heket's Rampage, Archer's Signet, Muddy Terrain, Beastial Fury, Tiger's Fury, Marauder's Shot, Trapper's Focus, Body Shot, Brambles, Poison Arrow, Called Shot, Choking Gas, Power Shot, Determined Shot, Primal Echos, Quick Shot, Revive Animal, Disrupting Accuracy, Splinter Shot, Roaring Winds, Disrupting Shot, Scavenger's Focus, Dryder's Defenses, Energizing Wind, Seeking Arrows, Expert's Focus (bugged), Focused Shot, Snare, Healing Spring, etc, etc, etc.

So, once you take away all of the "lol why would anyone use that" stuff, your left with only a handful of skills. And, most of the skills you're left with are for conditions (poison, bleeding, and cripple suck in PvE), interrupting (faster casting in HM makes these much less useful), and defense (not necessary if you have good prot and heals).

/rant

Chthon · Aug 01, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Ranger skills are lacking in damn near every area you can think of. Traps are useless, Beast Mastery is only used for EoE and lols, and nature rituals are slow and 90% of 'em are terribly thought out. And there are crap skills like...

Practiced Stance, Punishing Shot, Equinox, Heket's Rampage, Archer's Signet, Muddy Terrain, Beastial Fury, Tiger's Fury, Marauder's Shot, Trapper's Focus, Body Shot, Brambles, Poison Arrow, Called Shot, Choking Gas, Power Shot, Determined Shot, Primal Echos, Quick Shot, Revive Animal, Disrupting Accuracy, Splinter Shot, Roaring Winds, Disrupting Shot, Scavenger's Focus, Dryder's Defenses, Energizing Wind, Seeking Arrows, Expert's Focus (bugged), Focused Shot, Snare, Healing Spring, etc, etc, etc.

So, once you take away all of the "lol why would anyone use that" stuff, your left with only a handful of skills. And, most of the skills you're left with are for conditions (poison, bleeding, and cripple suck in PvE), interrupting (faster casting in HM makes these much less useful), and defense (not necessary if you have good prot and heals).

/rant

Yep, that's pretty much the size of it.

Vazze · Aug 02, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

HM is not reserved for non-ranger professions. You are perfectly fine with splinter barrage, asuran scan + 1s bow attacks, condition spread shutdown builds (BHA, Ebon dust aura), you can always grab a sword and play dragon slash, etc. If you still have trouble with HM, I suggest you check your team/heroes (good team should carry you with no skills on your bar).

Improvavel · Aug 02, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Erm, for a Ranger HM ?

Why not?

Expertise to reduce cost of attacks, stances like lightning reflexes + skills like throw dirt to improve survivability in melee range, you have +30 natural armor vs elemental and you can still add the shield for +8 armor (if 0 in tactics) and a +10 armor vs x/reduce blind inscription.

Never tried it but wouldn't dismiss it based in theory only.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the nerf to flail the ranger (considering bow builds only) problem, unless you go with consumables or drunken master (that need consumables), is that they can't have everything - constant ias, multiple target attacks, preparation, single target multiple hit and high damage single target attacks.

BHA is quite powerful, but requires something like epidemic and aoe attacks like volley to work better or becomes a powerful but situational skill - nobody likes to use their elite spot on a situational skill.

Barrage can be powerful but means losing a preparation and volley while not as good, can also be the perfect platform for GDW, Splinter, EBSoH and orders.

Glass Arrows is great damage but means losing skills like volley.

Expert's Dexterity is great IAS and adds a bit of damage but then no barrage, no glass arrows, no bha, etc.

IA is ok but is also means losing other options.

U also have wager and Pshot for emag and spam Asuras Scan but then no volley.

You just can't have everything.

But, as a bow ranger, you can certainly daze and cause decent damage, be a great weapon platform with GDW/Splinter+orders, triple and dual shot can also be quite powerful when paired with the right skills, Sloth's Hunter Shot hit triple digits, keen arrow isn't bad either.

Main problem? Lack of GDW on heroes and the limited skill slots all the h/h have if you playing alone.

Tenebrae · Aug 02, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Why not?

Expertise to reduce cost of attacks, stances like lightning reflexes + skills like throw dirt to improve survivability in melee range, you have +30 natural armor vs elemental and you can still add the shield for +8 armor (if 0 in tactics) and a +10 armor vs x/reduce blind inscription.

Never tried it but wouldn't dismiss it based in theory only.

I never said no or dismissed it but in a thread called "Ranger tricks in Hard Mode" i dont think that a Ranger doing "Warrior Tricks in Hard mode" have much sense. If you want to play or mimic a Warrior , go ahead , is not my business ofc but in my opinion if you are going to play like a warrior , create a warrior and play it instead. I play "like a Dervish" with my Sin not only because is funny and effective, is that i just dont have a D ( and will never have one )

GDW on heroes cant be done but try asking someone you dont know to bring that buff for you or for someone in the party ..... in my experience , 80% of the times is a "no" , 10% is a "hahahaha oh rly ?" and maybe the rest bring it but use it every 3 mins or so. My option is Brutal weapon when im the only Phys in my team or EBsoH when there are more players that can benefit from that. Love buffs that cant be removed once they are on . For the BHA matter , i made a good explanation on previous page , keyword "technobabble"

iToasterHD · Aug 02, 2009, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Why can't we all just get along?

And agree that rangers suck in PvE?

Ugh · Aug 02, 2009, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Why can't we all just get along?

And agree that rangers suck in PvE?

Yea, that's why all my previous posts were QQs about buffing some of their shitty skills,

Quote:

Practiced Stance, Punishing Shot, Equinox, Heket's Rampage, Archer's Signet, Muddy Terrain, Beastial Fury, Tiger's Fury, Marauder's Shot, Trapper's Focus, Body Shot, Brambles, Poison Arrow, Called Shot, Choking Gas, Power Shot, Determined Shot, Primal Echos, Quick Shot, Revive Animal, Disrupting Accuracy, Splinter Shot, Roaring Winds, Disrupting Shot, Scavenger's Focus, Dryder's Defenses, Energizing Wind, Seeking Arrows, Expert's Focus (bugged), Focused Shot, Snare, Healing Spring, etc, etc, etc.

buffing their shitty skill concepts,

Quote:

Traps are useless, Beast Mastery is only used for EoE and lols, and nature rituals are slow and 90% of 'em are terribly thought out.

and making them more useful for things other than condition spreading and rupting.

Improvavel · Aug 03, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Why can't we all just get along?

And agree that rangers suck in PvE?

Rangers are best for attrition.

PvE has long moved from attrition to massive firepower/invincible tanks.

Mad Lord of Milk · Aug 03, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

This might work.

12 Expertise
12 Marksmanship

Glass Arrows
Penetrating Attack
Sundering Attack
Distracting Shot
Asuran Scan
Drunken Master
"I Am the Strongest!"
Resurrection Signet

You can halve a HM Monster's HP with Penetrating/Sundering, with a little luck.

Tenebrae · Aug 04, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

If your goal is to deal damage you might wanna add Triple shot instead drunken master if you dont have booze ( zealous bow ofc ) but do have rock candies .

Archress Shayleigh · Aug 04, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Your problem is that you run a PvP build in PvE. Use some PvE skills.

Solstace · Aug 04, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Not sure. I like using a vampiric bow with barrage for a little extra damage. Having a N/Rt hero with orders and splinter can up your damage as well to where it can be useful even in HM. I'm certainly no pro at playing ranger, but that has worked for me. Interrupts still work great in HM too.

Kendel · Aug 05, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Traps are useless

I stopped reading right there...

Slow, yes. Useless, not even close.

Ugh · Aug 05, 2009, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

I stopped reading right there...

Slow, yes. Useless, not even close.

In 95% of PvE and PvP, they are ignored. From my experiences, traps are useful in Zelite, fun in FA, okayish is UW, and useless everywhere else. They are restricted to farming builds (which used to be good), but were pretty much deserted after the nerf of EW. Now all the builds are slow and ineffective. And why would I go with a group of trappers into UW when I could solo it in HM faster with a R/Rt spirit build? Unless you have a bunch of secret, effective builds, I feel that traps could use a buff (at least in PvE). The high energy costs (even with expertise), long recharge times (even with TS or SQ), slow activation, easily interruptibleness (

), and crappy damage are a bit much, IMO. Also, rangers can't even use PvE traps without killing their enegy (not affected by expertise

).

Atrives · Aug 05, 2009, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I found this build in pvx 1 week ago. Works good for me in HM missions and Vanquish.

maxxfury · Aug 05, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

I generally run
[Prep shot][experts focus][sundering shot][penetrating shot]
[I am the strongest][asuran scan][lightning reflexes] and [finish him] or [dwarven stability]

Not optimal, but fun and puts out a solid 140~ dps with my ranks. Good enough when is my rangers turn to do the Zmish's

when i dont need Bha (due to another ranger taking it or lack of 'big' casters)

Otherwise ill run EDA volley for heavy melee areas, or for shiggles WS scythe, ms-db daggers, earth shaker or trip chop fueled by expertise.

Kendel · Aug 05, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

The PvE traps just show Anets 'depth of devotion', meaning they're morons who didn't think it through in the slightest.

Useful and fast are not the same thing. You can go offensive trapping with Trappers Focus (or Smoke if you wanna risk it for dazed) and on particularly lethal mobs, set a stack and blow them to hell. Even a lone trapper, given 20-60 seconds, can put the hurt on a mob enough to let the rest of your team get a huge headstart, blind dazed and cripple on everything is always nice.

MisterB · Aug 05, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

In 95% of PvE and PvP, they are ignored. From my experiences, traps are useful in Zelite, fun in FA, okayish is UW, and useless everywhere else. They are restricted to farming builds (which used to be good), but were pretty much deserted after the nerf of EW. Now all the builds are slow and ineffective. And why would I go with a group of trappers into UW when I could solo it in HM faster with a R/Rt spirit build? Unless you have a bunch of secret, effective builds, I feel that traps could use a buff (at least in PvE). The high energy costs (even with expertise), long recharge times (even with TS or SQ), slow activation, easily interruptibleness (

), and crappy damage are a bit much, IMO. Also, rangers can't even use PvE traps without killing their enegy (not affected by expertise

).

The nerf of Energizing Wind did not change trapping's effectiveness for solo farming. Solo trapping has always been slow. There are plenty of faster alternatives, but it's quite simple to trap in hard mode without EW. You can slay many mobs level ~26 and under in ~ 30 seconds of traps with the aid of EBSoH. Even Aatxe in HM with their high armor and health can be killed by a lone trapper. Expertise is very often the only energy management required.

The main reason trapping is abandoned as a farming method is because it is simply slower than all the many other alternatives now available. Many players got trapped(heh) into the assumption that EW is required for trapping, and abandoned it when the skill was nerfed. Trapping is still "effective" at killing, i.e. you can kill almost anything with them if you really want to, but you can probably do it faster and easier with other builds or classes.